Tags for this Article:
stainless-video, contact, serac, bill-belcourt, mountaineering, ice-climbing, cyborg, sabretooth, stainless-steel, pcp-crampons, climb, knowledge, climb, video
Monday, August 3, 2009 - posted by BD crew
Upgrade to stainless video: the benefits of stainless steel crampons
Learn about the performance advantages of stainless steel and how we have used it in the constuction of our crampons from Bill Belcourt, Black Diamond's Climbing Hardgoods Manager. Stainless steel is used in Black Diamond's Fall 2009/Spring 2010 Cyborg, Sabretooth, Serac and Contact crampons.
Recent Talk (1)
BD crew 10 Aug 2009, 12:28PM
Matt -- We use a heat-treatable stainless in our crampons for excellent durability. To answer your second question, we haven't had any problems with laser cutting parts.
Matt Oakley 7 Aug 2009, 8:29PM
What grade of stainless are you using? I made a set of crampons for a custom snowshoe and found the stainless (as expected) to be much softer than chromoly steel. I was thinking of switching to a PH stainless.
Are you having any issues with the heat affected area from laser cutting the blanks?
Steve Nutting 17 Aug 2009, 5:58PM
I've often wondered why crampons weren't made from stainless...
When I saw the title "Upgrade to stainless," it made me think that there would be some sort of trade-in process...Is there one or do I have to shell out the big bucks to get a pair?
Giovanni 27 Aug 2009, 5:33AM
Seeing BD removing surface treatments to make a greener product that is also more easily recyclable is great.
There are other companies (one whose name starts with a G) which claims (correctly) that carbon steel is harder than stainless, yet they won’t heat treat their crampons enough because the harder they are, the more fragile they become.
I am not an expert in steel, but I have worked this type of alloys in the past and it all boils down to compromise: which hardness do you want? which surface treatment are you willing to apply? how do you want to bend it (stainless steel is more easily shaped than carbon steel, therefore the possibility of achieving more weight efficient shapes)?
To answer the laser cutting question: laser cutting only damages a few microns of the surrounding matter. Problems can occur when cutting small, intricate shapes because the heat cannot be dissipated well, but on a crampon shape this won't be a problem in most cases.
Personally, I am not sure which steel I would prefer (it would depend on the heat treatment that one can apply), but I am eager to try the new Cyborg!
Jacon 8 Dec 2009, 10:14PM
They look cool but (at least the Cyborgs, according to backcountry.com) aren't any lighter than the old ones. What's the deal?
And by that I mean they're HEAVY. 5 ounces heavier than my G-14s. It's tough to make that sort of switch...
eric 9 Dec 2009, 12:26AM
If stainless is far superior, then why make the Neve out of aluminum? Is it just weight savings? Im in the market and wonder if I should get the Neve Pro or the Sabertooth. Same price but Neve is 3/4 lb. lighter but not worth it if its more maintenance or wears out sooner. Thoughts...?
BD crew 9 Dec 2009, 11:57AM
Eric --
The Neve is for non-technical general mountaineering and glacier travel, while the Sabretooth is built for everything from ice to snow to mixed terrain. Since the Neve is not for technical ice climbing, we made it out of aluminum to keep it as light as possible.
BD crew 29 Dec 2009, 4:04PM
Jacon --
If it's exact and accurate weights you're after, never trust a manufacturer's specs—weigh them on your own scale for the true weights. The true weight of the G-14s is 1278 grams (with ABS) and the true weight of the Cyborgs is 1120 grams (with ABS). Thanks for the interests and keep on checking those weights (even ours!).
Build My Own Feed
United States / English
10 Aug 2009, 12:28PM
Matt -- We use a heat-treatable stainless in our crampons for excellent durability. To answer your second question, we haven't had any problems with laser cutting parts.
7 Aug 2009, 8:29PM
What grade of stainless are you using? I made a set of crampons for a custom snowshoe and found the stainless (as expected) to be much softer than chromoly steel. I was thinking of switching to a PH stainless.
Are you having any issues with the heat affected area from laser cutting the blanks?
17 Aug 2009, 5:58PM
I've often wondered why crampons weren't made from stainless...
When I saw the title "Upgrade to stainless," it made me think that there would be some sort of trade-in process...Is there one or do I have to shell out the big bucks to get a pair?
27 Aug 2009, 5:33AM
Seeing BD removing surface treatments to make a greener product that is also more easily recyclable is great.
There are other companies (one whose name starts with a G) which claims (correctly) that carbon steel is harder than stainless, yet they won’t heat treat their crampons enough because the harder they are, the more fragile they become.
I am not an expert in steel, but I have worked this type of alloys in the past and it all boils down to compromise: which hardness do you want? which surface treatment are you willing to apply? how do you want to bend it (stainless steel is more easily shaped than carbon steel, therefore the possibility of achieving more weight efficient shapes)?
To answer the laser cutting question: laser cutting only damages a few microns of the surrounding matter. Problems can occur when cutting small, intricate shapes because the heat cannot be dissipated well, but on a crampon shape this won't be a problem in most cases.
Personally, I am not sure which steel I would prefer (it would depend on the heat treatment that one can apply), but I am eager to try the new Cyborg!
8 Dec 2009, 10:14PM
They look cool but (at least the Cyborgs, according to backcountry.com) aren't any lighter than the old ones. What's the deal?
And by that I mean they're HEAVY. 5 ounces heavier than my G-14s. It's tough to make that sort of switch...
9 Dec 2009, 12:26AM
If stainless is far superior, then why make the Neve out of aluminum? Is it just weight savings? Im in the market and wonder if I should get the Neve Pro or the Sabertooth. Same price but Neve is 3/4 lb. lighter but not worth it if its more maintenance or wears out sooner. Thoughts...?
9 Dec 2009, 11:57AM
Eric --
The Neve is for non-technical general mountaineering and glacier travel, while the Sabretooth is built for everything from ice to snow to mixed terrain. Since the Neve is not for technical ice climbing, we made it out of aluminum to keep it as light as possible.
29 Dec 2009, 4:04PM
Jacon --
If it's exact and accurate weights you're after, never trust a manufacturer's specs—weigh them on your own scale for the true weights. The true weight of the G-14s is 1278 grams (with ABS) and the true weight of the Cyborgs is 1120 grams (with ABS). Thanks for the interests and keep on checking those weights (even ours!).