Build My Own FeedQC Lab: How strong is the Spinner Leash?
I don't usually write-up BD product specific tests and results, but I've just been getting so many of a similar type question on the Spinner Leash lately, that I felt I needed to. And to be honest, these questions are kinda freaking me out.
"I just bought the Spinner Leash, How strong is it?"
"Is the Spinner Leash strong enough for it to hold me if I get too
pumped?"
"Will the Spinner Leash hold a fall if I whip onto it?"
"I want to make my own ice climbing tether system, how strong do I need to
make it?"
"Is the BD Spinner Leash stronger than the Grivel Double Spring Leash?"
Why do these sort of questions freak me out? Because it shouldn't matter how strong these things are. Sure they're rated to 2kN—like most tethers—and you can hang on them if you wanted or needed to, but you must remember that the leash is only as good as the
placement of the ice tool it's attached to. Think of bounce testing a Pecker with a daisy chain. If the Pecker blows, you have it zinging towards you—same as if you decide to weight your tools via your Spinner Leash, except the tool is further out of your reach and has way more mass, and now it has the potential to slingshot towards your head. Ouch.
Ultimately the real purpose of these leashes is to stop your tool from falling into oblivion should you drop it on a long ice or alpine route. They're not really designed as something that you should sit on if you get too pumped mid-pitch (they are too long, and then you will have to climb back up to the tools), and they're definitely not intended as a "just in case"
if you were to whip, or used as a personal anchor system at a belay. I could compare this potential misunderstanding of usage of a Spinner Leash similar to the common misunderstanding and mis-uses of a daisy chain. I've seen folks using daisy chains incorrectly when aid climbing (e.g., you should never use a daisy chain such that there is even a possibility of taking a fall directly ONTO it). And I've seen tons of folks at the cliffs
using daisy chains as personal anchor systems—do you know the pocket strength on most daisy chains is ~ 500 lbs, a load easily generated with a slip, small fall and jolt onto the anchor? Daisy chains aren't designed for that kind of loading scenario—and neither are Spinner Leashes.
Bottom Line
The Spinner Leash and most new-school leash/tethering systems are intended to stop your tool from falling, NOT intended to stop YOU from falling.
I apologize for the soap-box-type speak, but just wanted to spread the word about the tether systems and the fact that you shouldn't be anchoring into anything with them, whipping onto them, and strongly consider the risks of weighting them at all if you are pumped.
Be safe out there.
KP
Kolin Powick (KP) is a Mechanical Engineer hailing from Calgary, Canada. He has nearly 20 years of experience in the engineering field and has been Black Diamond's Director of Global Quality since 2002. Kolin oversees the testing of all of Black Diamond's gear from the prototype phase through continual final production random sample testing.
United States / English 
25 Feb 2013, 7:54AM
Having read all the above, currently climbing with standard wrist leashes I am now reconsidering the alternatives for the new pair of axes. Not having dropped an axe before I have had the misfortune to stand at the bottom of a route while another climber launched one in our general direction. People moving very, very fast in all directions. Not one to repeat! A lucky escape was had.
I still want to use wrist leashes for the support they provide but want to move to clipper types to aid placing gear. Fearful of the repetition of the falling axe and hearing stories about clipper leashes, albeit in unusual circumstances becoming unintentionally unclipped wonder if there a case for going clipper leash with just a very basic lightweight home made tether simply to prevent a dropped axe?
Then again it would be nice if you slipped and the axes were well placed there is "at least a chance" they could hold you. Take the point about it being catapulted towards you, doesn't sound appealing. Hence I wonder if a non elasticated cord based tether might be best?
Thinking about it, If you did fall and they pulled they should (you'd hope) be coming from above at a height which might mean they hit you on the top of the head. Not great I know but better than in an unhelmeted face!
Please don't shoot me. I'm only sharing my thoughts to try and work out the best solution.
29 Oct 2011, 8:21PM
Any way I can get a bigger pic of this graphic? I want to make a poster for my office. Thanks.
1 Feb 2011, 11:10AM
If the Spinner is not intended to stop climber from falling, then why o why it isn't weaker (let's say 0.5 kN or less)?
@BD crew: there is actually third option (and I'm smiling in blasphemy). To use leashes.
20 Jan 2011, 2:32PM
All, this is just one of the three main options out there... traditional leashes attached to your wrists... leashless, or harness tethers like BD's Spinner. All of them have different qualities. For high alpine climbs, it's a good idea to have some connection to your tools, just in case. My walking Piolet gets a leash... but on single pitch routes, i prefer leashless. I don't think Kolin was being sanctimonious... he was just responding to inquiries (MANY, MANY QUESTIONS) from customers. Experienced ice leaders understand the pro's and con's... Kolin is making sure less experienced people do too. It's a well designed device, and like all products, has it's limitations.
22 Dec 2010, 12:00AM
BD opened this can of worms by "strength testing" the Spinner Leash in the first place. To the best of my knowledge, you don't strength test backpack straps, which strangely enough have saved a climber or two during freak, climbing accidents. I acknowledge your write up was well-intentioned, but it came across to me as a sanctimonious lecture on safe climbing etiquette, to climbers who merely have had "worst case scenario" questions on fall strength.
The leash's strength= 2KN = 550lbs; which makes it about quarter the strength of carabiner when force is "cross loaded" in the direction involving the gate ( ~8 KN). That's not inspiring, but a lot stronger then your average strap system on your backpack or to your chalk bag strap.
I am certain we all agree the Spinner Leash makes a dangerous and lousy belay. However, my non-engineer hunch is that under most scenarios, it probably would hold keep you connected to your tools if both your hands slipped off. As a climber, it is nice to know that rapping off the gear loop of your harness, MIGHT not kill you. (And yes, I'm alive today because my gear loop held.)
15 Apr 2010, 10:36AM
Kolin, great info. After reading through the comments I now better understand why you stay awake at nights :)
14 Apr 2010, 7:05PM
I especially like the illustration of the tool impaling the climber's head. I'd be frowning too if I had a full pick embedded in my skull through my eye!
11 Mar 2010, 3:24PM
Is there any way you could put that instructional graphic on a t-shirt?
7 Mar 2010, 3:17AM
“If you fall and have the tools placed in 2 good placements, you are exposed to a fall onto the spinner leash with the consequences above.”
The question is: If you fall, and your tools hold, will the spinners keep you linked to your tools, or will they break apart, with just a minor fall? That way you would be in a case 2 scenario (no spinners) and it looks easily preventable just by using a stronger leash
Is there any technical reason not to build the spinners stronger, lets say 10kN?
Is there any advantage having them break at 2 kN?
Thanks
22 Feb 2010, 6:04PM
I'm pretty new to ice climbing but the general rule I've picked up is: Don't fall. Anything else is inherent hazard.
22 Feb 2010, 2:39PM
“If you fall and have the tools placed in 2 good placements, you are exposed to a fall onto the spinner leash with the consequences above.” -Correct.
“Not sure if it does make sense to use them if this is the case....”. -Using leashes, going leashless, going climbing at all… are all choices that each individual climber needs to make and needs to understand the consequences of these decisions.
Regarding the spinner leash question in particular, here are your options the way I see it:
With spinners
· 2 good ice tool placements
· Fall
· The tools COULD hold your fall (though that is not the intent), and you’d be psyched
or they could not and…
· The tools COULD come out and smack you in the head
· AND you take the big whipper, but you still have your tools
Without spinners
· 2 good ice tool placements
· Fall
· No tools in the head
· Take a big whipper guaranteed
· Tools are now either stuck in the ice way above you, or have fallen into oblivion
Take your pick (no pun intended).
22 Feb 2010, 9:19AM
Thanks for the information. What doesn't make sense is the fact that if you fall, and have the 2 tools correctly set in 2 good placements, you would be, by the facto, exposed to a fall into the spinner leashes with the consequences explained above. Not sure if it does make sense to use them if this is the case....
6 Feb 2010, 4:36AM
KP,
Great write-up, exceedingly clear and concise - thank you for all the work that you and everyone at BD do, not just in producing superb gear, but in supporting the enthusiasm of climbers everywhere. Please do keep up the extraordinary work.
4 Feb 2010, 2:21PM
Thanks, Kevin, for making explicit this information about the Spinner Leashes. They are a great and slicker alternative to home-made sets. We all look forward to reducing the redundancy in the amount of equipment we carry into the alpine, but this doesn't seem like on of the areas in which one should skimp. My good friend recently thwacked himself in his helmeted head (thankfully not as seriously as the caricature in the above illustration) when he took a whipper while mixed climbing with the Spinners.
4 Feb 2010, 10:12AM
Hey KP,
Thanks for the info. Really good advice!